Talk:Libertarian

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Neocons v Libertarians

  • DRolfe 22:41, 21 Jul 2005 (PDT) - I think it's wonderful that democrats are finding the balance to neo-con expansionism in libertarianism. The solution to Empire, deficit spending, etc. are core Libertarian goals: reduction in the size and scope of the federal government. I'm interested in other opinions.

Clarification of an edit

In practice, the phrase "libertarian" can include a fairly wide range of people, from right wing extemists to fiscally conservative liberals on one hand, to left-wing anarchists, and libertarian socialists on the other. [1]
  • DRolfe 18:02, 25 Jul 2005 (PDT) you can't really use 'hands' to contrast right-wing extremists, fiscally conservative liberals, left-wing anarchists, and libertarian socialists. Unless you were to re-write it to include fiscally conservative liberals on the same hand with left-wing anarchists and libertarian socialists (for the very reason that fiscally conservative liberals are frankly very near to libertarian socialists -- where's the contrast? only in some varying degree of socialism).

Clarification of another edit

you can't really use 'hands' to contrast right-wing extremists, fiscally conservative liberals, left-wing anarchists, and libertarian socialists
  • Colorless green ideas Good point, I think my brain filtered out the "liberals" after "fiscally conservative"--wasn't expecting to see it there. so bad semantics aside, my only point was to include left-wing anarchists, and libertarian socialists in the discussion, seeing as, well, they invented libertarianism in the first place before the Austrian School of Echonomics reinvented it on the back of Murray Rothbard.
I agree with your point about a libertarian contrast to neo-conservativism, here's a great blog post on the subject.
Do you know about Freedom Democrats?
It seems to me that there is emerging a serious movement of libertarians from alignment with the reps to alignment with the dems.


p.s. how'd you do that date thing?
  • DRolfe 21:24, 30 Jul 2005 (PDT) - Which date thing? The timestamp after a username? If so -- when you type something in a wiki like this one -- if you type three tildes in a row you'll get a link to your username like this: ~~~ = DRolfe.
If you type four tildes in a row you get your name and the time you pressed the 'save page' button, like this: ~~~~ = DRolfe 21:24, 30 Jul 2005 (PDT).
Also notice that instead of using lots of tedious blockquote tags you can just use one or more colons at the beginning of a line to indent text at the set of standard HTML 'stops' (e.g., the level of indent for a list, ordered list, blockquote, dictionary-list underhanging indent, etc.).
The last useful thing I think every wiki user should know is that when your own talk page gets modified you get an asterisk after the 'My talk' link to let you know. This is probably the most timely way to message people on a wiki site. :-)
In addition to Freedom Democrats -- which I was aware of -- there's also some other interesting, and relevant fringe groups in the area (that is, the cloud of libertarians intersecting with progressives - in my three-axis view of politics). I don't know what a chance they've got but: http://www.reformthelp.org and the related (and even less popular it seems) http://www.holisticpolitics.org. The reason I mention it, is the guy who runs the holistic-politics site describes what I refer to as the economic spectrum as more of an egalitarian spectrum -- i.e., it's not really about socialism-capitalism as it is between equality-atristocracy. I kind of like that framing as socialism and capitalism really present the same amount of equality in different ways but that doesn't meaningfully describe why people on the "Right-wing" are considered 'pro-capitalist', it's not that they are pro-capitalist so much as they are pro capitalist-winners (that is ... the rich and the mega-corps they chair). If you were really pro-capitalist you'd accept that everywhere there are winners there must be losers and as such, there must be either a State, private, or religious/tribal (or all three) provided safety-net. Otherwise, the risk involved in un-mitigated capitalism will reduce the pool of actors/producers and thereby damage patrons/consumers. Hey, I'm no expert, that's just my two cents.
Colorless green ideas 14:42, 28 Sep 2005 (PDT) - Testing some new Wikitags... ah, got it. thanks for the link to holisticpolitics.org, it is a very thought provoking site, and thus quite certain to be completely uninfluential in the world of libertarian ideas!

Left & Right

Obviously libertarian socialism does not support state control of the economy; it supports egalitarian values and workers' autonomy. Different approaches include Parecon, gift economies, and market economies (like mutualism and agorism). Mike Erwin 11:09, 15 November 2006 (PST)

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